Vaughan Interview - November 1999 Interviews / Date: Sep 11, 2002 - 09:44 PM How did you get involved with Drum'n'Bass and your long-running show on 2SER, Montage? The whole story starts with doing the show with two other friends. We were all doing stuff with 2SER at Macquarie Uni and the idea came up to do a drum'n'bass show, this was early in 1996. That was with Dan Collins, DJ HC11, who plays with Joined at the Bass and the Elefant Tracks folks, and Roger Dawkins who is now doing film stuff. Anyway we put this proposal for a jungilist breakbeat show, and we got it, which came as a huge surprise because we were all relatively inexperienced... Anyway, after about 12 months I ended up doing the show by myself. So you got into Drum'n'Bass through your friends? Yeah. I really dug the whoe rudebwoy jungilist thing, and around the time the show started, the hiphop Gangsta hardstep stuff was really big.. I was buying records, and in but not anywhere near the level at which you need to do a show or DJ seriously. So I was kind of thrown into it. Were you DJing at the time? Yeah, Hip Hop sort of stuff and kind of playing around the edges of it, but not really what you'd hear on the show. This was towards the end of Jungle Massive's Zulu Base at Club 77, and just before Dave Edwards and this other guy called Miles kicked off Bass Code, as well round this time Matt & Kayla were just starting to DJ and some other folks like General Grabber were doing things, but no-one was doing a drum'n'bass show on radio. I think that a few people were pissed off that we started doing it.. I mean it was like "Who the fuck are these kids... they got no idea" but most of those people are not involved anymore. Mostly though, people were cool with it and we got alot of help to kick it off. There weren't many Drum'n'Bass acts coming to Sydney at that time, were there? Jungle Massive did Gachet in late 95 and Rap in late 96, but it seemed to be only an annual sort of thing! There was alot happening in other cities but not much in Sydney. As well, there weren't any records coming through, I think access to new records and the sense that you're up to date with the sounds is very important for people. This situation has only recently changed, but now BPM are taking it seriously with weekly shipments and all that. None of the larger stores ever really bothered with it, and for me, that early experience of drum n bass crystallised how it related to the established electronic scene, that it was really opposing the status quo. That was one of the most exciting things for me about it. You have a lot of little sound bites from all the big names on your show, how did that come about? When I started doing radio stuff I was mainly doing talks programs, with lots of interviews and that sort of thing. I think that is important, rather than just playing music, you should try and give a sense of 'current affairs' and what is happening. On Montage, I didn't do nearly as many interviews as I wanted but I was always trying to hook stuff up. I think they contribute to the sound of the show. And it wasn't just the big names either, just anyone really. It was a longer show then wasn't it? Yeah two hours. We lost half an hour at the beginning of the year [99] when we moved to 10PM. Did you get a lot of people showing an interest and wanting to get involved with the show? There are so many people in bedrooms just doing crazy shit, like Fromage, Elefant Trax, all the guys in Epping and places all over Sydney. A lot of highschool kids just doing stuff for themselves. So many people getting sounds and software and ideas off the net, but the problem is that everyone is doing it in isolation, and we need something to bring it all together. You left your show in the capable hands of Vtek earlier this year, was there any reason for leaving 2SER? Well, on one level, I needed to put more time into what I was doing at Uni, as well, I thought that the show could do with a bit of new blood. I wasn't entirely happy with the way it was going and thought that I needed to have a spell and take a look at what I was doing with it, and I suppose, with music in general. As well as that, I was dissapointed with how 2SER had adopted this marketing idea of "Underground Music" - alot of those decisions were made by people who have no real idea about "underground music" and saw it as a way of tapping into a market. In a way that's fine, because you have to acknowledge the environment that 2SER works in - everythying's run on a total shoestring budget with no real funding, as well there is always the threat that the Univeristies will remove thier support. But it's also dissapointing because it's a very short term way of running things - "Underground Music" has no _real_ meaning, it's only a marketing label - it doesn't really guarantee the future of 2SER as a part of Sydney. I suppose the best way of characterising what went on would be what happened with the decks.... for years and years the 2SER decks were a total joke - as anyone that had used them would know - they were totally fucked, the leads were all shot and used to earth out and the mixer was fucked.... it was really, really bad. You would be in the middle of your show and everything would just breakdown and it was horrible. To make things worse, some of the 2SER volunteers and DJs organised a couple of fundraisers to get money to buy new stuff, but then 2SER just sat on the money for ages.. the new gear was just sitting there and we had to use these old, completely fucked turntables and mixer.. it was completely insulting... totally insane!!! I was trying to put pressure on 2SER to get thier act together and I ended up getting criticsised for that..... it was so fucked. This is also at the time when they had just begun the whole push towards "Underground Music" and here we are trying to play and we can't even do that - and it's not because of lack of money or anything - it was just laziness and bad management. Anyway, eventually the new gear gets put in the studios and we get all these new "Underground" music programs and everyone is happy. But now.. when you tune in to the radio, it's more than likely that you will just hear a seamless mix.. with no talking or anything. Now, I think that's fucked as well because if you want to listen to that you can go out and buy a Mix CD. The problem is that no-one is really using the possibilities of radio - not many of the shows at 2SER are trying to developing a sense of the station or larger issues around what they are doing, or trying to interact with their audience or include thier audience in what they are doing...it's essentially the same as any of the massive commercial radio stations but it's just better music - instead of MIXFM's "seamless mix of the best of the 1970's" it's 2SERFM's "seamless mix of the best of 1999". Now, this isn't the fault of the DJs cause they are doing what they do best - playing music. Really, its 2SER's fault because they thought that they could just throw all these new people in with no training and no idea about what they should be doing - 2SER just went - "O.K. we need a bunch of popular DJ's." The really sad thing is that in the end, it's the station that suffers - the DJ's get exposure and 2SER just becomes a vehicle for their career. As well, popular DJ's don't really bring in all that much advertising revenue anyway - if DJ John Smith has a residency somewhere or is playing at a big event, those people do not need to advertise on 2SER because DJ John Smith's 2SER program is a free 90 minute advert for that event. Know what I'm saying?? And this is all happening right now.. you will notice that not many venues advertise on 2SER - while they might advertise heaps in magazines or on flyers or whatever - but why would they have to advertise on 2SER when they essentially get it for free? What 2SER should have done was to develop a stronger approach to this new identity, and also maintained their commitment to developing new ideas about broadcasting and protest. Ultimately, the day will come when 2SER is going to be threatened with being shut down or it will cease to operate in its present form and it will really need a lot of completely dedicated listeners, members, volunteers and staff willing to invest lots of time and money and effort in keeping it afloat. The problem is that I don't think that having a bunch of nondescript music programs makes 2SER all that important to be worth fighting over, or fosters that kind of dedication from listeners. Don't get me wrong, I think that the station is sounding relatively good, and then there are fantastic things like Freaky Loops and so on, but I think that a lot of the people making the programs are really being let down by 2SER in terms of support and direction, essentially because 2SER is not really dedicated to the idea of "Underground Music" and only sees it as a cash-cow. There needs to be more emphasis on making _radio_ and developing ideas, rather than just playing music. With Montage, I was trying to give this idea of what drum 'n bass is - beyond the tunes - I was trying to describe the people who make the music and the culture surrounding it and all that, I was trying to highlight the aspects which I think make it exciting and different to the established music scene. Since no one else was playing the stuff on radio here in Sydney, I felt that that it was quite important. Have you thought of going back to do the show? I wouldn't do a strictly drum'n'bass show. I've been thinking about this a lot since I left, and I've had a few different ideas. I think a genre based show would be too restrictive. The room I organised at Freaky Loops runs along this ideas that I have thinking about, mixing Drum n Bass with Detroit Bass and Miami Bass and Dancehall and Garage and all that, sort of relating things in terms of rhythm and other issues, but I haven't really got the firm idea. To have a radio show like that you really need a solid idea to base it on. There is so much interesting stuff happening with music at the moment I would want to have a open music format, but you have to have a strong framework to relate the different music together. A good example of that is the show that Patrick H.A.F and James Bond and DJ Florian started, Dark Energy.. illustrating the currents of "Black Science Fiction" in music, you know from Parliment to Derrick May, Lee Perry, Grooverider.. whatever.. based on the ideas laid out in Kodwo Eshun's book "More Brilliant that the Sun". With a framework like that you can play such a wide range of stuff and still have a cohernacy about it as well as inject a new sense of meaning into the music than you would have if you just played detroit or funk or whatever. I wish I'd thought of it first... Tell us about your involvement with Freaky Loops? It was all really Sub Bass Snarl's idea, it kicked off about the time that they started doing Frigid and it was that whole idea of films and sound and soundtracks all that shit. The first one was at UTS, but then the University didn't really dig it so it was taken to Sydney Uni at the Manning Bar, which opened up opportunities for more rooms - and this is where I got involved, with other crews like All Funked Up and Clan Analogue and 8-Bit. I was working on this dark techstep idea, and had Junglist stuff next to hardcore with Mat and Kayla and Geoff Da Cheff, DJ Zeitgeist and Hedonist and Brothel Owner from Bloody Fist. The next one was along the same lines with Nasenbluten and more drum n bass things. The most recent one was a little bit more esoteric, but music has changed alot over the last three years and I thought that it was time for a few new ideas. I have always felt that the drum n bass has been really sucessful at Freaky Loops.. we put alot of effort into the production and deliver it in a way that Sydney doesn't often experience. Over the 3 years Freaky Loops has been running, there has been a real change in the punters, now you are seeing alot of the younger kids, people my age and younger - poeple who weren't a part of the wharehouse / rave scene whose experience of this sort of music begins in the clubs, post 1993. There is quite a different dynamic associated with this, you can see it in the sucess of the drum n bass room - because it is such a different vibe than your striaght banging techno, for example. I think that it's great that this is coming through - keeping things fresh.. its got to keep moving. The problem is that now we have hit an impasse with Freaky Loops, I mean, where can we go from here? It has by far outgrown the Wentworth Building, the last couple have been in excess of 3500, and we could probably double that for the next one, but we are having problems finding an appropriate venue. As well, the larger it gets, it really changes the vibe of the event - we want to make it as big as possible but still make it feel special, and this is a very hard thing to manage. But it should grow - I'm always suprised by the types of people that turn up to it - people you wouldn't expect, like people you used to go to schol with who were in Guns n Roses tribute bands - but that is fantastic - turning them onto what is happening in these other parts of music. We don't want to restrict that at all. There is so much stuff happening locally with Elefant Trax and the Clan and Fromage.. but these people are finding it impossible to get any exposure in the typical Oxford Street scene. It's really up to 2SER and events like Freaky Loops to let people experience what is _really_ going on in Sydney - not just some imported secondhand culture pushed by people who makes loads of money from it. I would love it to taken it bigger and bigger.. I would like to see the next one maybe cross over some other barriers in Sydney, like we could have a r'n'b room, or something like an Asian dance party room with that DJ Chozie guy or a Banghra thing.. it would be great to get those kids along - really freak a few people out on both sides of the fence. Are you more into dance floor drum'n'bass or listening styles? Different music for different things, it's all good. Over the last couple of years alot of critics who were previously really enthusiastic have come down pretty hard on the whole twostep thing - suggesting that it's become boffin music and that it's lost its energy. I agree that it has become more refined and polished but that is something that all new movements go through as they become institutionalised - they start off with all this raw energy and crazy shit and that gradually slows down. For me, what has redeemed Drum n Bass through this process is that it is still feircely indepentant, I think that that the drum n bass community has managed the transition into a "legitimate" music quite well. It's great because it _has_ grown up, its now this massive industry with people earning their livings from it, some artists are making huge amounts of money from it, and there is no reason to try to restrict its popularity, but unfortunately, this also slows it down. To expect it to be still doing the things that it used to sort of misses the point - if you want that sense of newness there have been other things which have come along - which is why the whole twostep garage is so exciting at the moment - and now, surrounding that are music critics and cultural theorists who are trying to make sense of it right next to the A&R reps cashing in and making money out of it. ith drum n bass, alot of dull stuff is coming out, but it's always the case - you always have to sift through crates and crates of garbage. There is still so much that is rocking - like the new Krust album, totally wicked!!! Actually, I read this thing that he said in a recent interview - about how there is less and less bass in the music - and I agree. I think that that is pretty fucked... you still have tracks like all the new Dillinja / Capone stuff with just stupid amounts of bass and so much impact - but alot of other stuff has lost the sense of bass and immersion that the music used to have. I think that you should only play tracks with total bass!!!! Overall though, its still growing and developing - just at a slower rate - but things still come along and flip it around, like the whole thing at the moment for vocals in tracks.. like the Breakbeat Era LP and Krust's LP and heaps of other stuff. I suppose that it's just important for DJs to keep pushing the new sounds and not get too comfortable. But, yeah I love all the different sounds within drum n bass.. I think that one of the problems at the moment is that DJs are not playing wide sounds from across the spectrum.. you know, DJs tend to favour one style, be it that rolling Bristol vibe, or dark steppy stuff or whatever. For instance, the music coming out on Creative Source totally blows me away, their Q Project track from earlier this year is magnificent, but you _never_ hear that stuff out. I guess its mainly because DJs find it hard to weave all the different strands together, but fuck that, in my opinion it's so much more important to really mix it up, the seamless mix and technical skills are only really appreciated by other trianspotters. As a drum n bass DJ you have such a wide palette, so you should use it. There is nothing more boring than hearing the same beats, the same basslines all night long. What do you think of drum'n'bass albums? The thing about albums is that they are what makes the most money for labels - generally DJ's only ever buy 12's, but albums appeal to a much broader audience, so there is alot of financial pressure to make albums. As well.. there are different types of albums - you have albums which are essentially a collection of 12's, compilations like Planet V or artist albums like Wormhole, and then you have the album as a serious artistic statement like Krust's Coded Language - these try to push the envelope and tend to be more experimental with ideas. Dancefloor albums tend to absorb alot of material which would otherwise be released as 12's, so it slows that process down by not having new releases every month, instead, one big stack of new tracks once a year. For the average bedroom DJ, this gets very, very expensive, your looking at over $100 for Planet V or World of Drum n Bass, and you might only want a couple of the plates on it. But then again, I'm sure they sold alot more copies of the CD version of Planet V to average punters than they ever sell 12's to DJs. But albums are good as well, because if you dig all the 8 plates of Planet V, well, its much cheaper to get the package than to buy them all as individual releases. It's impossible to have a definate answer 'cause there are so many pros and cons.. I buy some of them but don't buy them all. You mentioned in one of your columns about how drum'n'bass is being tied to 'street culture'... The whole urban breaks movement, you know, like cargo pants and utility wear, trainers made by fashion companies, all that shit really bothers me. It just seems to be the way that the American market is trying to come terms with drum n bass and electronic music in general, they are reducing a lot of completely different things into the one fashion and identity. Its all driven by money - to make it accessable, to make it easy to understand and to make it's appeal as broad as possible. That way, if someone is interested in one element of the new urban culture, be it skating or graff of hiphop or drum n bass or whatever, they get pulled into the whole thing, as this artificial lifestyle. I mean, I think it's good when people reinterpret things, but I think that what is happening to some parts of drum n bass is driven by the market, and that rationalising all these vastly different ideas together really comprimises the integrity of the different cultures. For instance, the way that graff is being used is not about illegality and color and form and the other sorts of things which make it so exciting, but it's being used simply as decoration.. that's fucked. With drum n bass, its not about bass and rhythm and pirate radio and all that crazy stuff that I think that drum n bass is about, but its about it being a soundtrack to posing in utility wear next to a big graff covered wall while you practise your skateboarding and your hiphop MCing. Don't get me wrong - I love all those things individually, but I don't think that they can be brought together all that sucessfully. The biggest problem of all is that since drum n bass doesn't have a strong identity here, things are heading that way here as well. You just have to go into jeans shops to hear drum n bass blasting out of the speakers.. thats cool but drum n bass isn't about pants - its about the waist. What I mean is that Drum n Bass has its own identity and ideas, but its being subverted by the whole urban culture thing. On the upside though, this brings lots of new people into it.. and hopefully some of these people will have the imagination to take it in new directions as they get further involved. What are your highlights? Well, I get a real kick out of seeing what is happening now with alot of the younger producers who came through the show when they were starting out - guys like BrothelOwner and the Pilfinators and Sulo etc.. I'm really into what those guys are doing, and its good now to see them get broader exposure and begin to release stuff. There is a lot of talent out there.. there just needs to be opportunities as well. Another highlight would be my involvement with the Grooverider show last Easter.. obviously that was a complete highlight but it was also quite a turning point in the way I looked at things. I saw that a drum n bass party could be done here on a relatively large scale without compromising on things. Unfortunately, a lot of other drum n bass events turn out half done - promoters run out of energy or money, corners are cut... and no one has any fun with it. It's really unfortunate that there is so much happening in New Zealand with the Subtronix folks, as well as the other cities in Australia, but no one has managed to translate that sucess to Sydney. But its also quite difficult... with venues and money and so on.. but whoever manages to do it is going to clean up because the success of Grooverider proved that it has the potential to be huge. I think Beat Fix is doing a really good job, but they have a lot of commercial pressure on them so they can't push it where I think it needs to go, they need to take a few risks. As well, there are lots of isolated things happening, like V-Teks radio show and Spinwarps website, but it really needs something to bring it together because essentially we're all doing it for the same reasons... Sydney is unique in a lot of ways, its hard to say why it isn't as large as in other cities. I suppose that other cities have always had really strong collectives who are completely dedicated to pushing it, but we haven't really had that in Sydney.. people seem a little bit hesitant to take the risks needed to take it to the next level. But that is understandable because of the amounts of money involved and the difficulties with venues and so on. Securing venues always seems to be a problem in Sydney. We've been under a really dictorial state government for the last 6 years, one of the biggest problems in Sydney is the venue situation. You only have to look at the number of pokies in all the pubs, and the amount of venues that have folded to see how the state government has shaped the cultural environment of the city. You have a city full of beer-drinking poker machine players waiting for the Olympics, and this effects everything that you try to do. But then again, things are pretty good too for drum n bass too - you have one of Sydney's largest night clubs dedicated to a weekly drum n bass night. The most important thing to remember is that you have to do things for yourself, if you do something like a radio show or a website or a party you'll be amazed what that can lead to if you put your energy into it. As well, I think that the people involved have to realise that they are doing more than making tunes or playing records, we are all fighting for the same things and we are all part of a larger movement - we should be thinking about how to grow and develop the sense of community around the music, because that is where any real success lies. This article comes from sydneyfriction http://www.sydneyfriction.com/ The URL for this story is: http://www.sydneyfriction.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=49